He Who Leads Last, Leads Best — A Conversation with Marine Officer Lou Ogunyemi

I've had a lot of great conversations on KneeToKnee, but every now and then someone comes in and says something that just settles into you. That happened with Lou Ogunyemi.

Lou — whose full name is Olaolu Ogunyemi — is a U.S. Marine officer, an award-winning author, and the founder of Parent Child Connect. He also happens to be one of the most thoughtful guys I've talked to about what it really means to lead your family and your team. I was honestly looking forward to this one from the moment we first connected a few weeks earlier.

The idea that anchors everything Lou does is called "Lead Last." It comes from the old saying "he who laughs last laughs best," but Lou flipped it: he who leads last leads best. The point isn't to hold back or be passive. It's that before you can lead effectively, you have to do three things first — get to know yourself, get to know the people you're leading, and get to know the environment you're working in.

Sounds simple. But Lou was honest about how long it took him to actually live it.

He was 22 years old when he graduated college — already married, already a father. He came up with three brothers, all close in age, and that shaped how he handled conflict. When they clashed, it blew over in 30 minutes, maybe less. So naturally, he brought that same approach into his marriage and his parenting. He laughed telling me about it because, as he put it, he couldn't have been more wrong.

I have four brothers myself, so I understood exactly what he meant. There's a version of relating that works with the guys — and that version does not work with our wives. My wife has literally said that to me.

What I appreciate about Lou is that he didn't just talk theory. He walked through real moments — like serving as a young Marine officer and trying to be the tough guy he'd seen in movies because that was the only model he had. That wasn't who he was. It took time and honest self-reflection — a lot of it done while deployed on a ship, journaling and taking notes — to figure out a leadership style that was authentic and effective.

One of the principles he developed out of that season is what he calls the closed door policy. He laughed telling me about the time he was so committed to it that he forgot about his regular morning sit-down with his staff NCO — the guy who kept coming to his door and finding it closed. The lesson wasn't that the policy was wrong. The lesson was that you have to modify any principle to fit your real context, not just apply it rigidly and hope for the best.

We also talked about vulnerability — a word that a lot of guys instinctively tense up around. Lou reframes it as "strategic vulnerability." In the Marine Corps, when you identify a vulnerability in an adversary, you exploit it. So of course men are conditioned to protect their own vulnerabilities. But Lou makes the case that inside your own team, your own family, revealing those gaps isn't weakness — it's how you invite the help and feedback that actually leads to growth. It's plugging the gap so you can win the game.

That reframe stuck with me.

We also got into the Parent Child Connect book series — something Lou started because he wanted resources he could use with his own kids. It grew into something larger when he remembered the guys he grew up with who didn't have a father present. Now there are three books: Crow from the Shadow (about not letting obstacles block your purpose), Billy Dipper's Time to Shine (about self-worth), and Horace the Horsefly (a reading-focused book for younger kids). All of them are tools for parents, teachers, and mentors to create real connection.

When I asked Lou what parents can do today to help their kids overcome insecurity, he kept coming back to the same thing: find common ground and get into their world. Not in a try-hard, embarrassing-yourself kind of way. Just genuinely take an interest. Ask what they like. Sit with them. He suggested an 80/10/10 approach — 80% joint activities you both enjoy, 10% something they enjoy, 10% something you enjoy. It's a simple framework that actually moves the needle.

My dad told me something once that I've shared on the podcast before: every year, as a parent you have to get to know the new kid. Because as our children grow, they change. Lou's story about his mohawk — and my son coming home with one after leaving the Marine Corps — made us both laugh. But underneath the humor, Lou's point was real: they're figuring out who they are. Our job is to be patient enough to keep getting to know them.

Lou closed by sharing the one thing he tells everyone: connect with yourself first. Ten minutes a day in four areas — physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. You can stack them if you need to. Walk and meditate. Move and listen to something that builds you up. Because you can't connect well with others if you haven't taken the time to connect with yourself.

I'm grateful Lou came on the show. If you're a man trying to lead better — at work, at home, or both — I think this conversation has something for you. Give it a listen: Insert Link

And if you want to connect with Lou or check out his Parent Child Connect resources, you can find everything at: https://parent-child-connect.com

To listen to the episode you can go here: https://kneetoknee.riverside.com/

To watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/0_PR6ceQ8_g